Most Children’s Ministry Gurus Don’t Minister To Me
When did children’s ministry become all about Leadership? Though I think that message appeals to the white-color, Starbucks-sipping, Mac toting children’s pastors (an observation, not a judgment)… I think the latest trend in children’s ministry is all but lost on a majority of the folks actually doing the ministry.
Most children’s ministers are unpaid untrained volunteers who have a lot of passion and ability but not a lot of ideas, support or resources. They also don’t have a budget. I think this is why the CM gurus have ignored the real need… there’s no money in it. I don’t see a lot of curriculum being created and marketed to the Inner City for instance.
The mother of 3 doing children’s ministry in the basement of the church with her husband doing puppets doesn’t need to know about leadership, time-management and budgeting. She needs to know how to create object lessons, how to discipline properly, how to stay motivated, how to work with nothing and turn it into spiritual growth in a child’s life.
My hope is that a movement will rise up. A community of mid-small church children’s ministers who are Kingdom minded enough to share what they’ve learned, what they have, what has kept them afloat. A group of folks who aren’t comparing numbers or conference appearances but may have accidently mastered some aspect of their ministry and would love to share it with the rest of us.
As MJ said… we’ve got to start with the man in the mirror… so here goes. If there is anything I can help anyone with… anything I have learned… anything I can give (that is mine to give)… please let me know. That is the goal of this site and podcast after all. To target the forgotten.
My charge to all of us: Forget about being popular. Be important.
Thanks for your passion and honesty in this post. I've been doing some thinking along similar lines. My concern is leadership is trumping even more than just the doing of CM. It overshadows even thinking through the theology of what we are imparting to kids and families. I would add to your list that leaders need to help those in the front lines of CM learn and understand the theological implications of how things are taught… help refine the lenses of those in CM who don't have access to a multitude of resources and give them a better foundation from which they can pour into the live of kids and families. I'll be posting my thoughts on that in the next couple of days at Elemental Children's Ministry.
One great free resource for curriculum is http://open.lifechurch.tv I love the ethos at LifeChurch.tv of giving away as much as they can. I haven't used their stuff, but I know ppl who have and it is good quality.
You hit the nail on the head. Put an untrained person in a classroom and assume they'll teach the way you would? Kids are to precious for assumptions like that. Great point.
I only have Starbucks once a month or so….
Get with the program! Shave your head and grow a goatee while you're at it… because we don't have enough of those guys running around or anything.
The "head shave" thing will happen… eventually. To hide my receding hairline. But, my facial hair has much to be desired. It still looks like I'm going through puberty or something.
I've come to grips that I'll never fit in with the "gurus"… even with my macbook and iphone. I'm waaaayyyy too much of a dork.
And I'm okay with that.
Great thoughts and comments. I am still a mac carrying, Starbucks drinking person though. Love myself some lifechurch.tv and their whole give away concept. I always hoped that it would spread to others as well.
Man you hit the nail on the head. My wife and I with one adult volunteer minister to 50+ children every week. We have been blessed with a beautiful set in our old santuary, several of the men from our men's ministry volunteered along with our senoir pastor to build it. That being said with sound booth in the back with a 12 yr old running it if there is a problem i have to drop the puppets or what ever hat i'm wearing at the time and run back to trobleshoot. We were able to buy some curriculum, but i have to use my own PC (no mac) and buy my own copy of Media Shout
My husband and I are the Sunday School Directors for a small church that runs about 110. We both have full time jobs and my husband is also the assistant pastor and drum player for our services. So the job of planning and serving our kids falls mostly on me. I guess you could call me the children's pastor, even though I don't have the title. I have a lot of passion for our kids but I don't have the time to carry out all that I would like to do. I'm that typical children's worker in the church basement every Sunday morning and Wednesday night trying to do what the Lord would have me do. The only money I have to use is what the kids put in their offering baskets or what our church can raise. So most of what I use is what I buy myself. I just happened upon your podcast last month because my husband bought me an IPhone and I listen while I'm at work. I've learned a lot so far and I really love the free websites and resources that you mention. I'm thankful that I've found a website that gives me the meat and not just the milk. Thanks James.
Thank you for your comments. I would love your input on what folks in your position deal with the most…. or things you do to save time and maximize your impact given your situation.
You're right. Most CM peeps with blogs I read have a mod. to lrg ministry with an operating budget. This can alienate the scenario you reference above.
Though I don't fall in the 'guru' category, I admit that I blog from where I am. It's what I know. Maybe it's selfish, but I won't attempt to speak intellegently on something I have no experience in. Like trying to make kidmin happen in a basement on a zero budget. That's a true saint.
However, I disagree with your reference to leadership. I don't think you intended to express this as something that never needs to be addressed but isn't the prominant need to the person doing kids ministry in the basement. I agree… most leading kidmin blogs talk loads about leadership. However, there are so many aspects of kids ministry that deal in leadership. Leadership of the parents (if they're in the picture) leadership of the lead pastor, and leadership of other volunteers (as they come into the picture). I don't think it matters just how small your ministry is… if you're desire is that it outlast you, then leadership must play a role.
That and $5 will get me my coffee from Sbux.
You made me think. Curious how much of this I can apply to my blog. Thanks friend.
However, I disagree with your reference to leadership. I don't think you intended to express this as something that never needs to be addressed but isn't the prominant need to the person doing kids ministry in the basement. I agree… most leading kidmin blogs talk loads about leadership. However, there are so many aspects of kids ministry that deal in leadership. Leadership of the parents (if they're in the picture) leadership of the lead pastor, and leadership of other volunteers (as they come into the picture). I don't think it matters just how small your ministry is… if you're desire is that it outlast you, then leadership must play a role.
That and $5 will get me my coffee from Sbux.
You made me think. Curious how much of this I can apply to my blog. Thanks friend.
Leadership to the folks I'm talking about is like teaching a drowning man how to fish.
Man you hit the nail on the head. My wife and I minister to 50+ kids every week with 1 adult vounteer. We do have a beautiful set, built by the senior pastor and the men's ministry but don't have anywheres near enough help to use it to it's full potential. No salary, have to use my personal pc (no mac), and had to purchase my own copy of Media Shout because with it already on the main church computer and several of the computers used by the youth group thier afaid of copywright laws. My wife and i puchased it as our 24th wedding aniversery gift to each other. Don't need Starbucks coffee, just hot and black!
Thanks for being out there man (and wife)! Media Shout ain't cheap! I hope it's working well for you.
I'm not sure that you're looking close enough for those hands-on materials that you seem to think are lacking in the #kidmin online universe. Not in the blogosphere, but the rest of the online world seems to be 90% tools (puppet tracks, object lessons, etc…) In fact if you hit any Christian bookstore you will find book after book after book after book covering topics for your next VBS.
I've been a #kidmin at small churches, and some not so small; and I just want to go on record saying that I appreciate the voice of some of our #kidmin "gurus" (your word, not mine.) I appreciate it that I can go online and read the stories of ministries that are so much farther down the road of progress than me. I love reading about how to be a better leader of large groups of volunteers, and I love to be challenged to think bigger and better than I am now.
And I say this as a person that has some major experience working in a small church setting, and know that I say this with great love. But we need to be careful to not use our small church environments as an excuse to NOT be creative leaders. I've seen it all too many times. They'll say "I don't have that budget, so we'll just watch this video all morning." "I don't have that support from my pastor, so I'll just keep things like they have been for 15 years…"
Ok, let those arrows fly in my direction.
I'm glad you called it an online world rather than a community. A universe of resources created from behind a desk to make money on the backs of folks who can't survive without it is hardly what I would call a true resource.
I too find a lot of help and hope from some gurus… just not most. But you and I aren't the majority of cm workers I was talking about are we? Most kids min volunteers read that stuff, or go to the conference and walk away frustrated and defeated because that's not where there church is or may ever be.
I've heard gurus talking about church growth for instance. They'll say that a church that isn't growing is dead. I know a ton of churches that are set in towns of 400 to 1000 people and just about everyone in town goes to a church. The only way they'll grow is if someone has a baby or if they steal from another congregation. My point? The message of the large church leadership guru is not reaching a majority of our cm leaders. Argue if you want… but it's just the truth.
As for the labeling of small church leaders as excuse makers… there are excuses… then there are reasons. Excuses is what we make when we can do better. Reasons are for when the realities of our situation do not allow for better. Though it is almost impossible for the Starbucks culture to understand this fact… for some, the video is all they can do. Until the tide of cm switches from leadership into more down to earth and practical training, and make that accessible to the 'least' of us… we cannot throw stones.
Where are the cm cons (for instance) that go from Friday to Saturday night… that way the folks who work full time and still have to do Sunday service can get some inspiration?
James,
I'll be honest with you – the "Guru's" have a heart to give what they have away to those who need it. At least the ones I've had contact with. I've been in CM for 21 years – I've ministered in small churches, smaller churches, medium churches…I have never had another Children's MInister rebuff me when I've asked for help. That is true for those who have a national platform and those who deserve a national platform, but don't have one.
I will admit that there is a concerning trend of those who are seeking to create a name for themselves – I think they are easy to spot. They are easy to weed out of the genuine creative strong CM leaders.
Think of CMConnect – it was started by Michael Chanley – who has not sought a spotlight., but has suddenly become a "Guru" because of a God idea he ran with. Sam Luce, Kenny Connley, Jonathan Cliff – these are guys who have provided good resources for developing a ministry. Have they made a curriculum for inner-city churches? No, but they have given of themselves from what God has placed in them.
One of the most generous men I know is Jim Wideman. He's a "such as I have" kind of guy – he quietly invests in Children's leaders and has done so for many years to literally thousands of people.
Just as you feel God has placed a specific purpose in you – he has placed a specific purpose in each one of these men who has made ministry a life calling. It is fine to fulfill the call God has placed on your life, but it can be done without tearing down those who have been called is a different manner.
I have no doubt that these men are wonderful folks. I have met and interacted with many of the folks you mentioned. I've had lunch with Jim! I've had phone conversations with Michael. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm tearing away at an idea.
Generous or not… great or not… there's still a trend in CM that is leaving a majority of volunteers and ministers in the dark.
"Most Children's Ministry Gurus don't minster to me"
"I think this is why the CM gurus have ignored the real need… there’s no money in it. "
Sounds a bit more like tearing at people not ideas…
There is a real need for small churches – we do need to make sure that we don't loss sight of meeting the needs of these ministries. Being in a denomination…umm…a voluntary cooperative fellowship…where the average size of a church is 70 – resourcing small churches is huge.
Has the business of CM taken a much larger role in recent years? Yes.
How we go about fixing that is exactly what you said at the end of your blog – . "If there is anything I can help anyone with… anything I have learned… anything I can give (that is mine to give)… please let me know." But Joe Shmoe and Harriet Homemaker who are working in CM struggling to survive won't read this discussion in the blogosphere – they need us to go down the street and knock on their door and ask how we can help.
I don't really want to do a back and forth – but the post struck a nerve because I agree with the need, but disagree with the way of making the point. I've always had a soft spot for those who are in need, but also have a similar soft spot for those who have invested in my life – directly or indirectly
Well you got me. I do feel that there are a few folks out there who have created the trend (unintentionally) but are now more than happy to keep the trend going. It pays the bills after all.
Then there are the 'fan boys' who want to be just like them. Who are attracted to the 'glory(?)' and glamor(?) these guys apparently have. I've seen this so much. It's prevalent.
So paint me as the nerd kid who's distantly seething at the in-crowd. I may be that guy. But beneath it is a person who wishes the guys with the power would steer the ship a slightly different direction.
- part 2 –
Ha… He don't know this, because I've never told him (until now); but, when someone contacts me about serving in an inner city church and doing Children's Ministry there… I refer them to James. God has put James in a unique place, with a very specific calling and set of gifts that makes him a great resource for Children's Ministers doing inner city ministry. He is the only person I know doing what he is doing… and, he has a great heart for teaching and leading others… case in poing: this blog, his podcasts, etc…
- part 1 –
ummm… thanks Spencer… but, I hardly think I belong in this conversation. If anyone is a guru its the people who have been doing ministry for years and with excellence and in many varied positions.
My experience is to be blessed to connect a lot of people to others. I cut my teeth on leadership as a Sergeant of Marines, 7 years at a small church doing CM, and now almost 3 at a bigger church. I'm just getting started in my ministry. Honored to serve, no doubt… but really not worthy.
I think the point James is making, correct me if I'm wrong, is that there are far too many people who are trying to provide answers to things they know nothing about and have no experience doing. From my conversations with James, we've talked on the phone a couple of times, I know he is serving at an inner city church.
- part 2 –
Ha… He don't know this, because I've never told him (until now); but, when someone contacts me about serving in an inner city church and doing Children's Ministry there… I refer them to James. God has put James in a unique place, with a very specific calling and set of gifts that makes him a great resource for Children's Ministers doing inner city ministry. He is the only person I know doing what he is doing… and, he has a great heart for teaching and leading others… case in poing: this blog, his podcasts, etc…
I think the idea needs to be pushed that we can do more to help those not serving full-time in ministry. I think that you have something there, but let's be careful to not judge to harshly those feeding us some great leadership tools. When I was in a smaller church I absorbed as much Jim Wideman as I could handle, and still do in a much larger environment. I'm trying to understand who those 'fan boys' are, without wondering if your talking about me.
One of the disadvantages of living an "online life." is that many never see or hear about anything done on a local level. Many of us in larger churches share resources. For the sake of humility (no matter how funny that sounds) I will not run down my list of things I'm doing to help those in more needy situations.
I'd love to see some thoughts on things the smaller churches and volunteer #kidmin people would like to see from us Macbook toting, starbucks drinking #kidmin.
(and I mean that in a funny way, just poking fun!)
I don't know you… so I couldn't be talking about you.
Thanks for the feedback.
- part 3 –
That being said, here are some other leaders I look to for wisdom in niches:
Urban Ministry/Inner City: Denny Dillman, James Kennison, Jared Kennedy
Small Groups: Bill Search (my boss)
Leadership: Reggie Joiner, Jim Wideman, Dave Stone, Bill Search, Brett Deyoung, Brad Devries
Children's Ministry on a large scale: Jim Wideman, Sue Miller, Craig Jutilla, Steve Young
Children's Ministry worship: Yancy, Sara Semenick, Jason Hauser
Children's Ministry at a smaller to medium sized church: Ryan Frank, Rick Chromey
Children's Ministry at a church plant: Stephanie Porter
Children's Ministry at a satelitte campus: Pudge Huckaby
Chidlren's Ministry related events: Roger Fields
Children's Ministry in a desperate place: Justyn Smith
Conferences: Nevan Hooker, Judy Comstock, Roger Fields
Crazy faces and creativity: Johnny Rogers
Transfering to a new church: Spencer Click
Blogging and Twitter: Sam Luce, Kenny Conley, Jonathan Cliff, Matt Guevara, Gina McClain
- part 4 –
Portable Church: Dave Dummit, Brad Tate
Canada: Henry Zonio
Australia: David Wakerly, Rob Bradbury
Preteen Ministry: Rob Tuma, Nick Diliberto, Patrick Snow
Fitness: Michelle Romaine
Scholars: Rick Chromey, Diane Garland
Free Resources: Andy Johnson
Hey Michael, do you have addresses for a couple of these above? You mentioned a couple I was not aware of and would like to follow from a distance.
Most of them are on cmconnect.org… some I work with… can you email me which ones and I'll let you know more specifics? Hope you are well, Todd. Let me know if I can do anything else to serve you and your church. Michael Chanley
- part 5 –
Looking really pretty: Rose Chanley (my wife… yes, I know… it's shameless)
ummm… there's more… but, I'm running out of time… and just realized this won't all fit… ugh.
My point is that with social networking and the breakdown of six degrees of seperation to one degree of seperation, we can now contact people almost directly… we can find leaders to network with and get information from. We can learn from one another in a way never before imagined.
I think James was also alluding to this, it takes humility, a teachable spirit, and a desire to not settle for the status quo to become a leader in any area.
As it is written: 1 Peter 5:5
Honored to serve with each of you.
I need to ammend my – part 3 –
Instead of "transfering to a new church" I actually go to Spencer Click because he is "big and good looking." : )
Thank you Michael for the clarification.
Wow this conversation has developed a ton since I first read it and posted this morning. I think there have been some good thoughts throughout the comments and at times some over the top thoughts as well (but that is what happens often times when people are passionate about what they are talking about).
For me, no mater what size of church I have been at from pioneering an inner city church, serving at a medium size to large churches, I find that I can and do learn from anyone in the church or outside of the church. I enjoy finding people with all kinds of niches that they excel at and try to learn as much as I can from them in that niche. I too have never come across anyone who was not willing to help me as I grew in what ever area I needed to grow in by just asking them, whether time management, decoring an area with only $5.00, leadership, creating object lessons, not losing my family while doing ministry etc. I have actually enjoyed building friendships with many of these "Gurus" (again not my term but only the term used in this blog) and it has been accomplished through me just owning the development of my own direction and picking up the phone, shooting an email, treating someone to lunch, and stuff like that.
Now I have got to go and charge the battery on my Macbook Pro and finish my Starbucks before bed. Let's keep up the good dialogue and always remember we are many parts on the same body. 1 Corinthians 12
I hope I'm the "arm pit" part of the body… the boys will love that!
Of course I run the risk of "self-promotion" just by replying, but please forgive that! Brother, you have GOT to look closer at Kidology.org. One of our struggles is that while the forum is overrun by "Mac toting Starbuck drinking leadership types" (like me, minus the Starbucks, I don't like coffee!) the VAST majority of our site is trafficked by the very people you describe! Visit our "about us" page for a description of why we exist, please! As for "money in it" – most peolple sincerely are very ignorant what a site like Kidology.org costs to run and maintain, unlike most "Guru" sites, I dont have a church underwriting my livihood or a full staff on top of overhead, never the less, we give away membership daily. While my staff process them, I still read the daily scholarship requests as I love to read the emails from people who use and need the very things you described. I've said for years most CM leaders are women who complained to the SP and his response was to put her in charge! Now she can't complain, so she turns to the Internet for help! Our forums reflect what you describe, but reflect less than 20% of our site's activity. The silent mass users of our site are those you describe who greet all over the country with warm "thank yous" for the very help you describe. If you need a free membership, fill out the scholarship application and I will personally set up your membership for you! We working daily to address the need to described here and have been for years. I'd love to have you on the CP Team or in some other way be a part of it, if you'd like to help! And that goes for anyone else on this thread. Todd and Henry and Spencer up above already are!
Also wanted to add that I think there is a place for helping larger ministries with leadership… and a lot of these guys do a great job with that… I applaud them for what they do! The reason I haven't jumped on that bandwagon is that my passion is for the churches that are smaller and whose leaders are from smaller churches with little to no budget and who are often not paid. Those are who I love to go help. Since my last post, here are two emails that came in TODAY who got a free membership to Kidology: (and this is not uncommon, this is my daily experience)
1) I would love a scholarship. Sixty dollars is a fortune in my small ministry budget. I love what I have seen on the site so far just browsing. I have been looking for some fresh ideas to recharge my batteries. My church had planned on sending me to a conference, but money was not available. I am a very creative minister, but I would love to see others' ideas. – Lori, Ada, OK
2) My husband and I are missionaries with the Rio Grande Bible Inst. We raise our own support and have recently suffered losses of financial supporters. I feel, though. that we need to offer training to our teachers–I'm very interested in what you all are doing. It would be a real blessing if a scholarship would be made available. God bless you for your service. – Becky, Edinburg, TX
We get emails like this every day and our answer is to give the site away. We are not in this for the money. Money is needed to maintain this ministry, SIGNIFICANT money, which is why we have a membership fee and the Kidology Champion donor program, but we are helping over twenty thousand non-Mac and non-Starbuck CM leaders each and every day lead CM ministries from their homes and basements on Kidology.org.
The need you address is being met – and you'd LOVE more help!
Oh, and my wife wanted to chime in that socially, (noted by the male dominance of this thread) that women tend to have strong IN PERSON social networks, and less need for online social networking, so they go online, get what they need online and get offline, (whether it is Kidology.org or elsewhere) and don't have the the need to post in the forum, or twitter what they got, need, used, adapted, think, hate or like, and so it may just be that their needs are being met y'all just can't see it because it is happening under your online radar…. which would fit what I said above about them being silent.
Great post. I agree we need to be more practical. I disagree children's ministry is all about leadership. It doesn't matter if you have 2000 kids or 2 kids you are their leader and in kids ministry more than any area in the church you have to strong leadership skills because you can't do it by yourself.
That being said I will think more practical when I do future posts. Honestly I don't do practical as much because there are great sites like Kidology.org and Ministrytochildren that do that better than me. But I will try to be more practical.
I met myself in your post — the bit about the untrained, volunteer with no budget, that is. My Church of 200+ families and 20 or so kids had a Children’s Ministry budget of $300 per year, which had to cover all classroom materials, all fellowship programs, such as the annual Sunday School Christmas party, and anything else, such as curriculum. I paid for lesson activity materials out of my own pocket, as there wasn’t really anything left over for ‘fancy.’ I certainly didn’t need advice in ‘leadership, time-management or budgeting.”
I designed my website specifically to provide the help I most wanted to find online. A place for us to do exactly as you describe, to share our experience — share what we’ve learned, share what’s worked — and what hasn’t worked — practical things like planning Christmas programs, and icebreaker games, etc. It’s been slow going. I build as I can, but it’s growing. Articles like yours reinforce what I knew from the start, that it’s something worth doing. Thank you for saying it better than I could myself.